CoatingsCoffeeShop Coffee Conversations - The Association in Your Coatings Corner - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Sara Jonas, Jim Arnold, Jenn Brake and Chris Huettig of Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the recording.

Intro: Good morning. Welcome to CoatingsCoffeeShop's first Coffee Conversations. My name is Heidi Ellsworth, and it is with so much joy that we get to have the panel, the folks who are going to help us talk about what's happening in the coatings world and especially with the Association, Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association. This is actually so exciting to have this kind of conversation on coating specifically.

So before we get started, let's do a little housekeeping. This is being recorded and it will be available within 24 hours. Please share it. Share it with your company, your friends, your family, whoever out there. We want to make sure everyone sees what's happening in the coatings world. Also, the chat is open and we want to know who you are. So please say good morning. Let us know who you are, where you're at and the name of your company if you want and be sure to ask questions and make comments throughout the entire Coffee Conversation because this is a conversation. So let's get going.

I want to first say a very special thank you to APOC as our sponsor of this first CoatingsCoffeeShop, Coffee Conversation and also to the Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association for the great idea and for taking their time to today as board members and executive director to be here. So let's do some introductions of this esteemed panel. First of all, I am so excited to welcome back, Chris Huettig. Chris, welcome back to the show.

Chris Huettig: Thanks, Heidi. It's great to be here. I know we've had a couple of webinars together and it's been great. Anytime we get to talk about coatings, it's just awesome to bring it up. I thank you for giving us this forum and allowing us to be able to do this today. And I'm great and I'm very happy to be on the panel with the rest of the folks and some board members and important people who contribute a lot to the RCMA.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it. I love it. Well, please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your company.

Chris Huettig: Okay. Well, I'm Chris Huettig. I'm the National Director of Technical Services for KARNAK. As it says there. I've been in the roof coatings industry for 26 years. Been in roofing, this is my 30th year. I can't believe it's been 30 years. And the transformation of it has been so great over how it's grown. Not only coatings, but also just the roofing industry in general and the important part we play. I've held a lot of different positions in roofing from quality control up into sales and managing of all aspects of a roofing manufacture. So enjoyed my time and happy to be here with these people.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I love it. Thank you so much for being here today. Also, I am very excited to introduce and welcome Jenn Brake. Jenn, welcome to Coffee Conversations.

Jenn Brake: Thank you and thank you for having me. This is great. As Chris said, we really, really appreciate it.

Heidi J Ellsworth: We love it. Go ahead and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your company.

Jenn Brake: Well, as you said, I'm Jenn Brake. I'm the owner of Brake Marketing and Management. We're a full service association management company. We bring over 25 years of marketing and communication experience to our clients. I'm no stranger to RCMA, I've actually worked with them in the past and as executive director, I forward, my team and I look forward to driving growth and visibility to the association, to our members and really to the industry as a whole. So its exciting to be here.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Excited to have you. Thank you so much. And Jim Arnold, welcome to the show. I'm so glad to have you here today. Can you introduce yourself? Hey

Jim Arnold: Hey, Heidi. Thanks for having us. Well, since we're talking about RCMA today, I'm the current chair of the Communications Marketing and Education Committee. And really committee work is where things happen at RCMA and it's something that I've enjoyed being a part of since I started attending the meetings in 2009. And our committee, we get to talk about and execute all sorts of strategy to grow RCMA and our particular emphasis is on membership. So how can we add value to the members and RCMA at large? How can we keep the membership engaged? How can we attract new members? We also work to educate the public and any stakeholders in the value of roof coatings, the type of roof coatings, technologies surrounding the roof coating industry and application best practices. So we built a training program. We have information on our website on best practices and things to look out for.

We want to be very informational. And then we also like to participate in webinars like this to help promote it. So that helps as well. So lastly, we have an award program that we guide out of our committee that recognizes the leaders in our industry and the projects that set themselves apart from the rest. So I mean, that's really what I've enjoyed to do since I've been participating in RCMA. I worked on the technical committee for a long time as a co-chair of that. I moved over to CMEC a while back just because there was a vacancy there and it was just something neat and new to do. For my real job, I'm a director at Simon Products. We're the manufacturing arm of Simon Roofing and Sheet Metal Youngstown, Ohio. So, thank you.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Excellent. Thank you, Jim. I'm so happy to have you here. We've worked a lot over our careers together.

Jim Arnold: Oh, yeah.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah. And I am very happy to welcome back, Sara. Jonas, Sara. Good morning. Can you introduce yourself for those who don't know you in just a few?

Sara Jonas: Yeah. Good morning. My name is Sara Jonas. I'm the Vice President of Marketing for ICP group. We have a slew of brands within the coating space, in particular APAC, which you've already seen this morning. On the roof coating side, we also have AZ Tech, and then we have California Sports Surfaces, California Paints, APF, Resinous Flooring, a slew of coatings brands. But today we're talking roof coatings. Really excited to talk roof coatings with you guys. And also have to say, I'm loving seeing all these people's names pop up in the chat that I know. So hello friends.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I know. I know. I love, this is the best part. And thank you so much, Sara. That is great. And thank you again for sponsoring. This is... And being the sponsor of CoatingsCoffeeShop too, so thank you. So okay, let's get started. And what I really want to talk about the big picture upfront, and Chris, you and I are both and everybody on this panel, we're involved in a lot of associations. We are at all the trade shows, we're doing all that. It is so important. So could you just share what you see is the role of industry associations in the roofing sector and why they're so important?

Chris Huettig: Yeah, absolutely, Heidi. Associations really help us navigate a lot of the things maybe on the periphery that as a manufacturer, we're really just not always focused on or have resources. I mean, these associations help us come together with like-minded people to talk about technical issues we all face, government challenges with our products and just overall marketing and branding of roof coatings and getting the acceptance in the industry. Together, as many people say with associations, together we are stronger than we are standing as one. And that really goes for the RCMA. There's so many things that I get to be involved with and I learn from people like Jim and Sara that maybe sometimes I'm just not exposed to. Maybe it depends on what part of the country you're in. Maybe it depends on your role within your organization. But being part of RCMA and in particular just associations in general, really allow us to be able to come together and be exposed to things that are really important to what we do for a career.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, I think our associations are really the heartbeat of the industry and when you really look at that and how people can learn from them, can get involved, network, there's just nothing more important. And Sara, when we're kind of looking at that and you're thinking about contractors, manufacturers, distributors, what are the benefits? What are some of the key benefits for being a part of association that you've experienced? You are so involved.

Sara Jonas: Yeah, I've been really, really lucky to work for companies that support my involvement in these associations. But networking you just mentioned, meeting, for me, fellow manufacturers, meeting raw material suppliers, meeting with the contractors and talking to all of these people and getting to know all these people and of course understanding and learning and hearing about things that they're seeing. It's always beneficial.

But I think the biggest thing is industry association allows you to have a voice at the table. If you don't like the way something is going, get involved. If you like something and you want to see more of it, get involved. So really for me, this is the opportunity to work with these industry teams to influence the direction of the industry. So that's been really, really great. Participation in some of the research that's going on out there and from a marketer's perspective, that's always really great because I'm learning new things, getting new ideas for content, sharing industry information where I can with my audiences. So there are tons and tons of opportunities to get involved and a lot of benefits. I'm sure I'm barely scratching the surface here, but lots of benefits.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, I just think I'm with you. In fact, we were just talking, we're going to talk more as we go through this about the conference for RCMA. And I've been at it many times. I learn so much every time. I sit in all the meetings, even when I don't understand it, I'm there listening and trying to learn and to get that information. And then I love that Sara, then taking it back and sharing it out.

Sara Jonas: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I did want to add one thing that I missed. Super introductory, but I think if you're new to just industry associations in general, if you're new to an industry, I think the associations are the best way to learn and get up to speed quickly. Because most of these associations have tons of educational opportunities. So it's just a great way to almost play catch up if you're new. I remember going through NRCA training when I first got into the roofing industry, and it was the best thing out there that I could... I mean, I learned so much in such a short amount of time because of those resources available to members. So lots of educational opportunities too.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And I think getting your whole company involved. A lot of times it's just the owners or it's just the executive level, but to bring those resources back to your company overall so that they can learn. And yeah, that's one of the things I'm working on in our company. How do we get everybody involved? So Jim, as you're looking at this, there is a lot of roles of industry advocacy groups and really the associations play such an important part in advocacy for the industry. What are you seeing with that?

Jim Arnold: Well, you have to understand that the advocacy groups and RCMA in particular offer the members to participate in the greater good. And really it allows you to be a bigger part of the industry than you could ever be with your individual company. So we're there as a united front. We're talking about networking. It's all about everybody getting together and checking your guns at the door, and let's get down and dirty, talk a little bit. But we really encourage all levels of our member companies to participate at RCMA. We have something for everybody, whether you're in sales, R&D, tech, supply chain or even the CEO, there's something on the agenda that pertains to you. So when we craft our meetings, we're trying to hit to a lot of interested fronts. But getting back to that being a bigger part, I mean, when you work as a team, your collective voice goes a lot further than your individual voice.

And that makes a big impact because we as a group go to the regulatory bodies, we go to the code bodies, we go to ASTM and we have a united position of what's going to benefit our membership. We do that through... Mainly our technical committee brings that together with our government affairs to basically proactively get our position out. So we're here not as just XYZ roofing company, but as a group representing 65 basic manufacturers and another 25 suppliers. So it gets people's attention.

And there's a lot of policymakers out there that are either actively or subconsciously affecting our roof coating space. So we offer the venue for members to exchange information and strategies, combat legislation and rulemaking that could really impact our operations. And we're talking about specific chemical components of our products, maybe the container size or time of year for use, ozone, VOC regulations. But you make an impact when you go to the IBC and say, "Hey, we're representing 45 basic manufacturers of this material, not just one individual company." So it really allows you to have some united [inaudible 00:14:28].

Heidi J Ellsworth: And I love it when we also see... And I mean sometimes they're at odds, but most of the time you see all the associations working together that way too within the roofing space. So you have RCMA working with NRCA working with Western States. I mean, I think those coming together and really working with those code officials and regulations. And also just think about Roofing Day. Everyone's going to Washington DC with all of us working together within that roofing space and I think it's so important, but when you're talking about RCMA, I really want to talk about this and let everybody know who you are. So let's just start, like Sara said, let's start at the very beginning. Chris, can you just tell us about RCMA? What is it?

Chris Huettig: Yeah, from just the big perspective, it's growing and it's needed more now than ever to have our association. But right now our association is made up mainly of two groups. We have manufacturing members and then we got associate members and associate members who we would classify as those who supply raw materials, accessory products and services to the coating industry. Missing right now is really a space for contractors, and we've had discussions about this and we are currently exploring ways to bring contractors in because, face it, they're the ones who are putting our products down. They're a huge part of all of our successes. So we want to get some information and a dialogue to be able to go back and forth. Yes, we work with organizations and contribute and support NRCA, but to have some of those members specifically in the coating segment is really helpful.

So we're looking to do that. I mean, currently we do have the virtual training program that we're going to mention I think later on some, which is geared towards the contractors, especially contractors that maybe are new to coatings and don't know how to apply things. And this is all from a very high level perspective. It's not from any one chemistry or manufacturer. We collectively put all this together and built this thing so it really gives them a good understanding of the successes of how to apply, what's out there and best practices for doing it, to set them on that road to success so they understand coatings. And we don't want them to do one coating project and not care for it much or not quite understand it. We want to build upon their interest and successes and make that so that it grows that.

Also, within our meetings, our biannual meetings, we try to have a contractor panel like we're going to have this coming October. That contractor panel, it has four contractors that you help us get across the country. It's really the highlight of our meetings is having something like that to have that dialogue. Any kind of questions are asked, and they're answered honestly. So we know what contractors in the field are using, why they do something, why they don't, where they think it's going, how much of coatings is their business, all those questions that when you're selling a product sometimes you don't know why someone's buying that or where it's going or why it's being used. So it's a good time to answer those.

And within our group, those that aren't involved in selling, let's say you're formulating, sometimes you're formulating things and you don't know why contractors want this particular attribute. That contractor panel could help answer those questions and tell them what their needs are. And it lets people who come to the conference who do that formulation to say, "You know what? They kept mentioning this particular aspect of or challenge, that they face with coatings. I'm going to work on this as a special project." And they take that back to their company. So there's just so many things that, some are obvious we see at those shows and some we don't, but those are the kinds of things that having a category for contractors to join and finding a way to bring value, that's what we're exploring right now and we intend to do that for the future. So those are really what RCMA is all about in a nutshell [inaudible 00:18:37] there.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Well, and one of the things, Chris, that I love about the RCMA and this group too is you really can get your finger on the pulse of what's happening out there with roof restoration, with the chemistry, because you have, like you said, you have the vendors there also who are bringing the chemicals, they learn from the contractors. I know we love doing this contractor panel at the show. And I think to me where it starts at the very beginning like, "Here's the chemicals, this is how we're producing." And then all the way down to, "Yeah, it's coming at my spray. It's ray gun." And when that came out, that first contractor panel, I was like, "Okay, that's basic." And it really made a big difference to everybody afterwards. They were like, "Okay, we understand you're paid now." So real quick, when did RCMA start? And a little bit or just the history of it. I don't mean to throw you out if you have that date. Anybody, but when did it, because it's been quite a while.

Chris Huettig: Yeah, I'll bring it up. Jim, Sara, if I'm missing something, fill me in. I believe RCMA started in 1982. Small group of coating manufacturers getting together just... At that time in 1982, a lot of coating manufacturers, if you look, they're very small family owned companies. So the resources were tight and they knew they had things that were coming into their space that they needed to help overcome. And not everybody had the same resources. So it is one of the older contractor or older associations within the roofing industry, a lot of people don't realize that going back to 1982 and it's just grown from there. And of course, the challenges we all overcome and coatings in general have just grown. So there's so much more there that the association really has a really big need today more than ever.

Jim Arnold: Well, and then also the association was also... It survived a lot of the market shifts because back in '82, they were all bituminous-based formulations and now we've transitioned to so much more water-based type technology. So responding to that, in around 2015, we merged with the Reflective Roof Coatings Institute to even grow the association and really put all coating manufacturers under one tent. So this is the place to be if you have any kind of liquid-applied roofing material.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, that's interesting. So Sara, as we're looking at the RCMA, there are a lot of benefits for being a member of RCMA. Do you have some examples just in your experience, I mean, you've been really involved, of how that has benefited being a part of RCMA and really helped companies, manufacturing companies out there?

Sara Jonas: Yeah, I mean, I can tell you... Again, for me personally on the education side I did run through some of those training modules just to make sure I had the right level of knowledge coming into this and getting involved. I think networking is absolutely, it's a benefit. It continues to be a benefit. It will continue to be a benefit, but just in knowing who you can contact if you have a question of if you're like, "Hey, I remember you saying something about XYZ, who was that contact? What was that company?" Stuff like that.

But I also think things like industry data from a marketer's perspective, not to belabor the contractor panel, but that's a great benefit to us. We get so much insight and information out of that, so you have to be at the meetings to get the benefit there, but it's so incredibly beneficial. It's absolutely worth it. So that's one thing. And then I think just the shipment reports are also a huge benefit to just seeing how's the industry trending, what's going on in the marketplace specific to roof coatings is really, really beneficial. And we get those on a quarterly basis and they're very helpful to making educated business decisions. So those are some of the benefits that I see.

Heidi J Ellsworth: When I think back about even when I first started going to the RCMA meetings, really the information that helped from that marketing standpoint, that data, but also sharing and seeing what other people were doing and hearing what was going out on in the field, that's critical. I ask every time, "How's business? How are things going? What's happening out there?" It's always one of my top things that I want to know about. And you really get that when you have this like-minded group of people together. There just is a lot of benefits of being part of that association. And Jim, I love it. Because like you say, you've been around for a while, you know this association inside and out. Talk a little bit about your company, how it's benefited you and the benefits that are there for people by being a member of RCMA.

Jim Arnold: Yeah, sure. Just to drill down on some of the things Sara touched on. The number one thing you get as a member is the industry data. And that quarterly data is very granular. It drills down to each specific roof coating technology. So you're able to track what your company's doing against the marketplace. You can look through many years of trend analysis to see where the market's shifting. You can look at how the overall market size is doing. Like, "Hey, if our sales are up, guess what? Everybody's up." Or, "What's happening here?" So you can do a lot of what ifs picking apart the quarterly market reports. So that's great. That's a real physical thing you get. But so many things that you get from associates through membership in RCMA in specific are a little more fuzzy and a little more intangible, but they certainly are results.

And the number one thing we like to do is drive traffic to our members. And so we have a website that has all the member companies listed. Their logos, their point of contact and a way to get to that company if you're looking for, so if anybody happens to look for roof coatings and find RCMA, we're going to drive traffic. We exhibit at the IRE. And what we're doing there is to try to just give a lot of exposure in general on some of our best practices and white papers and things like that. But we're there to drive traffic to our member companies booths. So then you can explore further on what's going on with the roof coatings there. So we're actually driving traffic. We're there to raise the standard.

Most all of our companies participate in AIA, education and as you know, that has to be non-proprietary. And this is another venue for you to get non-proprietary best practices out into the marketplace. Whatever your company's doing, can you contribute a maintenance and repair program or something that promotes roof coatings as a system or how do we work with industry guidelines and other things? So that's really a great place to raise the bar for everybody.

And then like we've talked before, especially for me, I still learn something new every day in this business. There's something new going on. And because we have such a wide variety of manufacturers, raw material suppliers, distributors of raw materials, additives, chemistry, equipment, application equipment, manufacturing equipment, if you want to get some more information or look at what you're doing with your own company, with your product line or maybe a new manufacturing line, it's a place to go talk to people and find out their experiences, what were their challenges or am I going to get this done in three months or three years? So it's a great place to exchange information and learn some of the challenges you're going to have as you try to move your own company forward.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, I love it. I love it. So we wanted to set that stage of where we're at or where we've been. But now, and I don't want Jenn to feel like I've been ignoring you because I haven't, but we want to go to where we're at today with the roof coating manufacturer association. So Jenn, what's happening out there?

Jenn Brake: Well, obviously we've got lots of exciting changes in store for our members and even non-members. We have several strategic changes that we are making that I think will have a big impact, both for membership and just for the industry as a whole. Starting with, we're increasing our digital presence. So you'll see we're putting up a new website. What you have here is our old website. A new website will be launching probably at the end of September. This will give our members easier access to all the great resources that we have. It'll give them the ability to connect with one another. We will have an info hub where our members will be able to log in and access exclusive information that's just for members. But on the forward-facing side of the site, it will be an area where people in the industry, government, educational, people will be able to come to to access resources that talk about the industry.

So it will really provide a platform for information about roof coatings. This association is really the only one focused on roof coatings exclusively. So this will be a place that will provide that education. Which brings me to my next point, which would be, we will be expanding our educational offerings. We would like to continue these types of webinars. So we're going to be doing quarterly webinars. As Jim mentioned, we have some wonderful committees including a technical affairs committee as well as a government affairs committee. And those committees are busy putting together technical bulletins, staying on top of regulatory issues. So this will be a place where people will be able to come and find out information about those things. And as you guys talked about before, of course, we have the online virtual training program. This is a self-paced program where people sign up, they can run through the program.

Sara, to your point, it is a great way to learn about the industry. There's three different modules each bringing different aspects to the industry. And then I think a big change would be we're really strengthening our advocacy efforts. So we've brought on a new technical director. His name's Dr. Ralph Paroli. He's not new to the industry, and he's known for his research in roofing materials and his advocacy towards codes and standards. So I know everybody's really looking forward to his participation. He's already brought forward all kinds of great stuff for the association.

So really these, and you know what a great opportunity. I also want to, if you don't mind, I want to throw out, we also have Rock Miller. He is our account manager and he'll really be working through the day-to-day operations. He brings marketing and project management experience to the team. So he's been a great asset and I know the members already are interfacing with him, and I'm getting compliments about him all the time. So overall, all of these changes is really to bring a bigger commitment to our members to show again that growth and visibility.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I do want to say Rock is on here. So welcome, Rock. You're a guest here and this is just such a great group, Jenn.

Jenn Brake: Thank you.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I'm so excited to have you. It's just really cool. So okay, we know where we've been, we know where we're at, but I want to talk a little bit and one of my favorite subjects, about what's happening out there right now. But before we do that, we have a great question from Lily, which is awesome. Hello, Lily. Welcome. "Is RCMA planning to start tracking shipments of fluid applied roofing with their website reboot?" Jenn or Sara, I know you've been working on this too.

Sara Jonas: Well, those would be the quarterly shipment reports. So we do track that and we have been tracking that for a while. And those reports get distributed to the members on a quarterly basis. Jenn, I'll let you handle what the website changes might bring to those shipment reports, but we have been tracking that, information is available to members. I think Jim just mentioned it as well. It's really valuable reporting.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And I know Lily does a lot of research. So we may connect, Lily we'll connect you with this group. So will there be more overall information, not the granular, but overall information available to non-members with the website reboot on that?

Jenn Brake: For that particular piece of it, that is a member benefit and that information can be found and will be able to be found in the info hub, which is accessed only by our members. But again, I think to your point about the public facing, there will be a lot of information there about the industry and they'll have access to that. And I think the message is become a member and you'll have access to those reports.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That's great. That's great. Okay, Chris, let's talk a little bit about what's going on in the industry right now, in the roof coatings industry. What significant trends are you seeing both through RCMA and your own company?

Chris Huettig: Wow, there's a lot of stuff going on. One of the big windows that coating's hit is really the topic of sustainability and resiliency relative to roof coatings and just getting the industry to understand the broader perspective of that, especially with architects, consultants, building owners and key stakeholders there to understand that the purpose of our coatings is to help maintain and prolong the service life of a roof from a sustainability aspect.

We've always done that, but that work in the roofing industry, in particular in construction, to keep our materials from just being thrown into landfills when they still have many, many years of service life, it has brought a lot of forefront and thinking of how coatings can do that. We as manufacturers, a lot of all of our products, therefore maintenance and restoration of roofs. So we really proactively push roofing companies to start their own maintenance divisions and service divisions out there.

So all of us really support that. I think in our fall meeting, we have someone speaking on that, one of our first speakers about the importance of roof maintenance. And it ties into that sustainability and it allows people to understand, okay, what is out there? What are the products? And brings us all in as manufacturer. So that is important because we need to use the best resources we have to take care of the roofing products we have out there, our limited resources here on earth and create a space for restoration.

Also, big topic is labor reduction techniques to lower overall installation costs. Contractors will always say, "Okay, here's how you do it. Can I use this? Or are there tools out there to help me reduce my labor so that this is more palatable for a building owner to want to use and pay for as far as a system versus maybe re-roofing?" So tools and the trades and bringing people in who can create these tools to help use our products, always big. And then with that same thing, manufacturers. Us coming up with products that are easier for contractors to install, whether it's maybe reducing a primer step or some other type of a step or just using products that are more user-friendly, so someone who's been on the job for a week can understand how to use it versus someone who's been in the coatings industry for 10 years. Those are big.

And then that brings us to training, training and training. Training is huge. We talked about it already, but contractors are looking for that type of training. They're looking for great technical support from us. So we all need to step up our efforts and be able to do that and support the industry.

There's a couple of other things out there that are small. A lot of roofs are getting solar on it. So I get questions from contractors, "Hey, how do I handle this? They're going to put solar on this. Is there something I need to tell them beforehand to protect the coating? Or what should I do after it's installed?" And having those conversations. And then lastly, even some questions such as like, "Okay, I just got rid of these. I just applied your product. I have the waste of a five gallon pail. How do I get rid of that?" We get more of those questions now. So I think those are challenges that we're all needing to work smarter with that are trends that I see. I'm sure Sara and Jim see some ones as well that are the same or even others.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, I'd love to hear from all of you. So Jim, what are some of the trends you're seeing and challenges?

Jim Arnold: Well, I think the biggest trend we're facing now as a group is just a massive market shift. You're seeing the rise of silicone technology. The march is on. I mean just more and more and more. So what used to be dominated by bituminous materials and then a big rise in water-based materials is now we're getting into more technical type materials with silicones and polyurethanes, and they offer some great benefits, but they also offer a lot of application challenges that has been bringing on. So that's changing all of our marketplace in terms of what we provide to the installers and the installers on how to install it correctly.

So that's really where I see the big trend coming in roofing coatings.
And also it's not just saying, "Hey, great, we have a lot more silicone and polyurethane." But it's all the accessory products that come along with, because it's all about compatibility when you're on a roof.

Heidi J Ellsworth: So we have a question in the Q&A, and this is going to go to a little bit, Jim kind of, but I'm not sure who answered this, but that there have been... This is from a contractor or actually... Regarding they sell through the federal and state government accounts, and it has been pointed out to them that some of the chemical suppliers have banned Oxy Meco - and I'm sorry, Ed, if I said that wrong - in all their formulas worldwide. Curious, are you seeing that trend? Is this a challenge that the technical team will be taking on? Where are we on that?

Jim Arnold: That falls right into our government affairs committee. So when we look at issues with VOC, PCBTF has been a big focus of ours for years and any of these things that get red-listed are things that are of big discussion and we find out who's doing it, where we got to go to get our position out. So many of these chemicals do not have a substitute. That's where the problem becomes. And you're not just banning out of one or two products, but you might be taking it out of 25 products that are out in the marketplace. So it limits consumer choice and hinders proper use. So because of that market limitation, we usually have a pretty good story on getting those things reversed or accommodated in some way, shape or form.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Or figuring out other solutions.

Chris Huettig: Heidi, I'll be honest, I'm not familiar with that chemical. I don't think that's been brought up. I'm not on the formulation side, but I did write that down. And that will definitely come up in one of our next technical meetings.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And Ed goes on to say that... And it's coming from that Dow Chemical is banning Oxy Meco that is used in almost all silicone roof coatings and is a known carcinogen. Now-

Sara Jonas: They're not banning it, if you actually read the document that came out. They are electing to phase it out several years way in the future. But I think absolutely this is something that falls right into our committee work and something that the industry needs to really dig into and really look at: What's happening? Why is this coming up? Who's bringing it up? What's the reason for Dow phasing this out? What is their long-term plan or... Yeah, I think it was, yeah. What is their long-term plan? Diving into the entire thing falls right into it. Falls right into it. But I also think on this call, it requires a lot more detail. There's a lot more information there to dig into for sure. For sure.

Jim Arnold: And oh, by the way, Dow's a member, so we'll have them at the table.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And I think that right there just shows the power of the association of being... So Ed, please take this to the association, share your information, get involved, become a member. All those things can really make a big difference. And now I know this is another big thing that RCMA is working on, and thank you, Tim, for putting out this question. Can anyone on the panel provide any insight on the state of the Florida insurance issues and insurance companies requiring removal of 15-plus-year-old roofs being removed and replaced rather than restored? And Sara, I know you've been working on this.

Sara Jonas: Actually, I was going to kick it over to Chris, but-

Heidi J Ellsworth: Okay.

Jim Arnold: Chris, it's a Chris answer.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Okay, Chris.

Chris Huettig: This is huge issue right now going on with the state of Florida with the insurance, and I'll just recap it maybe somewhere on the call that don't know about it. But for reasons of financial losses in Florida, Florida insurance companies right now are trying to pass and have done, particularly Citizens Property Insurance Group, that's the big insurer in Florida, along with legislatures, they're forcing homeowners right now and they have it listed as homeowners, they're forcing them to shoulder the high cost of removing and replacing, in many cases a fully functioning roof just because it's reached 15 years in age. So that has been hard for all of us, but especially homeowners. We have some people, obviously, they live in their means and don't have the money to do this, but on the flip side, they have a roof that's fully functioning. So it's hard to think about that and why it would need to be done.

And in that same breath, when we say homeowners, a lot of times in Florida, a lot of people live, these homeowners, they live in condos. The regulation was really geared towards the steep slope, shingle market, but it's affecting condo owners. But condo owners buildings are flat, low slope commercial roofs, which are more robust than a shingle home and they're being categorized in this as well. So you have a condo association with many people on a fixed income that are now being told, "Your roof's 15 years old, you have to replace it." And it doesn't need to be, it's a perfectly fully-functioning roof with many years of service life. So that's really the issue right now. And because we're involved in that, it's not allowing our coatings to be used as maintenance products on these low slope roofs in Florida. So where we're at today, it's a tough spot because there are all kinds of roofs that have warranties, longer service lifes less than 15 years.

And some of these roofs have full NDL warranties, so they're already backed and the companies are doing that because they know it's a solid roof and we're trying to help this out. There's also the thought of that our products in the coating sector is being unduly restricted for trade. So we're going about it from all different angles. There's lots of talks of this also.

What's happening in Florida being copied in other coastal areas, it really started because of a building code issue change in 2007. Insurance companies want to see roofs built stronger, but there are a lot of good roofs, well-built roofs out there that we want to be able to have homeowners at a more economic price to maintain their places, their homes and also keep these perfectly functioning roofs from going in landfills where they don't need to be. And all that construction waste.

So RCMA, we're actively engaged in all fronts on this. There's going to be more information to come. It's a slow moving process when you're talking about insurance companies and legislators in the state of Florida, and we're working all through that. So if you want to know more about it, get involved with RCMA get on the technical committee and we'll help keep you updated on that.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I know at the last meeting, John Kenny gave a full presentation on this of what was happening in Florida, and it's so interesting. And another advocacy, another thing-

Jim Arnold: This is my commercial of you have to attend because yes, the question came now, but last year, last summer, we were on top of this with a full presentation focused on this that now has a focused task force within RCMA to monitor and to advocate for our position. So the benefit of participation.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah.

Chris Huettig: And there's been some wins on this. It was 15 years and you had to remove the roof. Now at least they allow, the state and the insurance companies, they allow for a qualified inspector to come in and take a look at the roof and judge whether it's got five or more years of service life. So it can be extended somewhat. And also at first, that inspection had to be an insurance adjuster or somebody other than a roofing contractor. There's been some changes. Now, roofing contractors are part of that group that can inspect. So there's been some wins, but there's still a lot of work that needs to be done on this.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, yeah. John Walker, hi, Johnny, just said, "Exactly, it may show at least five years of life left." So a lot of work. A lot of people are in there. So this leads us to, why you should attend the fall meeting. And thank you. If you have more questions out there on topics, keep them coming. We'll talk about them. But I do want to make sure we have time in here for Jenn to talk about what's going to be happening at the fall meetings and how people can get involved and learn about all this.

Jenn Brake: Yeah, it's so funny to hear all of these great topics and questions. And the fall meeting is the place to attend. It's the place that members come together and they have these conversations. We've got an exciting lineup of speakers and events starting with our in-person committee meetings. So we talk about all these different topics, and this is the place that everybody will be able to come together in person to talk about them. So typically, we're meeting on a monthly basis, virtually twice a year, we get to come together and have these in-person discussions. And that's typically how we kick off the fall meetings.

We talk about education, right? This is the place to come and learn. Whether you're new in the industry or whether you've been around for a long time, coming to our biannual meetings is the place to come and learn from each other. So for this particular event, Wednesday, October 23rd, we've got our in-person committee meetings. We will also have an offsite event at the Wabasha Street Caves, and this involves a local tour as well as networking dinner.

Thursday, we'll have speakers, keynotes, we'll have interactive panels discussions. We're actually bringing in a speaker from the UK to give us a up-to-date on what's happening in Europe and overseas. So that's an exciting presentation. And then we'll have our famous contractors panel, of course. So getting all different perspectives on what's happening. We have our award ceremony, Jim mentioned, we do have some awards that we do every year and those will be presented at the fall meeting as well. What did I miss? I know I've missed stuff here. There's so much.

Chris Huettig: Only other thing I think of, another reason to come is we piggybacked it off of the RCMA, I'm sorry, the NRCA meeting that's taken place. So for one plane ticket you get two meetings, and all that information to save your travel budget. So there's no excuse why you can't come.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That's what I'm going to be doing exactly. We're going to be at NRCA and then RCMA. And I do want to say-

Chris Huettig: Same hotel. You don't have to check out.

Heidi J Ellsworth: We have a number of contractors on this call today. So if any of you are interested in being on that contractor panel, please let me know. They want to hear your opinion, so reach out to me. I'll be reaching out to you. As you all know, we do have another question from Tim. "If SPF direct to deck, who's going to tear it off? I would assume that the re-coat would be the new roof." Chris?

Chris Huettig: Jim works on the contract side too. I would think that, again, it's a check with the insurance company. Here's the proposal. If it's just the re-coat, and again, the insurance company is saying there's service life left, they'll allow you to do it. But if they say the roof is at its useful life, the end of it, they're going to make you rip off to the deck. So that might be more than just a coating contractor. If a coating contractor just does coatings, then it's out of their lane and it's going to have to be a roofing contractor come in, remove all that, install a new roof system, whether that's new foam in a coating or some other type of roofing system, that'll be determined by what the contractor proposes.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I think this is the future of Coffee Conversations. There's a lot of questions around what's going on in Florida, so that is great. Keep any other questions. We have just a little bit of time left, so if you have any questions on trends, anything on the meeting, on RCMA, but let's talk just a little bit about how people who want to get involved want to be on these committees, want to be part of this conversation. Jenn, how can people become members? How do they get involved?

Jenn Brake: Well, the best way to get involved is to become a member, right? You've got access to a wealth of resources. We've got industry research we've been talking about, technical support and all of the great networking. So you can find out more information on the website, which is roofcoatings.org. You can find out information about the fall meeting there as well. So you'll be able to get information about the meeting, get information about the hotel, the location and be able to register.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Excellent. And you can find that on, say that.. There it is. Roofcoatings.org.

Jenn Brake: Yep.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Okay, Jim, let's get everybody just a little bit excited about the fall meeting and about what's going on. Can you highlight some of the initiatives or projects that RCMA is going to be working on that's going to be impacting the industry?

Jim Arnold: Well, we've already kicked it around with this Florida stuff, so I'm not going to go too further into that. It's a focus, and it's a big part of the work we've done most recently. And again, I just want to... Commercial. You got to get involved in the technical or the government if you really... Some of these things, they really... This is where the hard work gets done. But one thing we do as an association is we put our members, we assist our members to run for boards that affect other roof spaces that can affect our business. And so we actually have two of our members on the board and the technical committee of the Cool Roof Rating Council. So we're adequately represented in this product category at CRRC. And so we as a group, RCMA was involved to help develop the current rough substrates protocol that CRRC enacted on the industry a few years ago.

Our involvement helped save our members and even the non-member companies, thousands of dollars in product re-testing fees. Thousands. And it's a every couple years re-qualification of your testing fee. So not only is it your effort, but it's also the money is saved there. We constantly monitor the EPA, the South Coast Air Quality Management District, all the other mitigation districts in California, the Ozone Transportation Commission states and that's the Northeast, the Upper Midwest and even here in Colorado. And any other local drivers of regulatory issues that can impact our business. So we attend their meetings. We attend their meetings either live or virtually to stay on top of what chemical red lists that are getting cooked up and other issues regulating container size, which is another thing that they're really looking at.

We also work at ASTM. I mean, we have a significant coalition of members that regularly attend ASTM DOA Committee on Roofing and Waterproofing. We have many of our members that are chairs of the subcommittees. So we're really trying to protect our own space by helping craft that collective language that becomes the ASTM standard, so we're working with all the other different stakeholders to develop equitable solutions that could affect our space. And this really couldn't be accomplished without our technical director. We've had a lot of great technical directors through the years. Right now, Dr. Paroli has been fantastic about getting involved and he brings a lot of great leadership and experience to the organization. He can help everybody. That keeps us organized. We keep some focus. And those are some real tangible benefits that you can get involved in and be a part of at RCMA.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That, be involved, get involved. And I'm going to also connect, Ed is on what he was talking about before with the silicone and the federal government. He's looking for solutions. So I'm going to connect Ed, I'm going to connect you with Chris and Jim and Sara and make sure that they and the RCMA so we can get you there and see what you can share with what is happening to you and also get some help. So we will do that and connect them. So thank you all. Thank you for all the great questions and everything. This was really great and special thank you to RCMA for bringing this for everything that you're doing. You all are absolutely amazing panelists, thank you so much for being here today.

Chris Huettig: Thanks Heidi. Appreciate it.

Jim Arnold: Thanks a lot.

Outro: Thank you. Thank you. And we got some clapping going out there. Thank you everybody. We're going to keep doing this CoatingsCoffeeShop, as we can tell today, there is a lot of conversations out there that need to be happening. So stay tuned. You'll be hearing them. Also, be sure to check out all of the RLWs and webinars, actually Coatings Talks that are happening on CoatingsCoffeeShop. In fact, we have one this Friday, tomorrow, so check it out. And it's all about roof restoration and how to get into coatings as a contractor. So thank you again. Thank you, Jenn. Thank you, Sara. Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Chris. Thank you all for being here today, and we will see you next time on Coffee Conversations.