Liquid-applied Roofing Insights - PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

Editor's note: The following is the transcript of a live interview with Josh Poole from Tremco. You can read the interview below, listen to the podcast or watch the video!

Heidi J Ellsworth: Hello everyone. My name is Heidi Ellsworth and this is Coatings Talk from Coatings Coffee Shop. So excited to be here today to talk about the insights on Liquid Applied Roofing. This is really good and it's going to be from our friends at Tremco who really understand and have been leading the way on liquid applied roofing systems. So before we get started, I want to remind everyone that this is being recorded and it will be available within 24 hours. Although this is a Friday, so look for it on Monday, about midday Monday, to get this recording. Be sure to share it within your business, within your community, within the industry. This is the kind of information that makes a big difference to businesses and the industry overall. Also, as you all know, the chat is open, so please let us know who you are, where you're calling from, what type of business you have and feel free to ask questions and make comments as we go. Jefferson, hello. Thank you already for being in the chat. We appreciate it. So I'm looking forward to hearing from all of you.

So let's get started. I am so honored to have Josh Poole with Tremco and WTI here today. Josh, thank you so much for being on this Coatings Talk. Please introduce yourself and let everybody else know a little bit about you, what you do at Tremco and about Tremco overall.

Josh Poole: Thanks Heidi. The honor is all mine. I appreciate you having me on. It's always a pleasure. My name is Josh Poole. I'm a senior product manager with Tremco. I'm focused on the liquid applied roofing line here with our company. Been in the industry for going on 18 years here, actually almost 19 now. So definitely wasn't the plan, but I think that's a lot of people that you speak to in the roofing industry. They find a good home and it's a great industry to work in. During my time, I've worn a lot of different hats, so I've worked with customer service and sales, technical and product support. So, I've done a little bit of everything and I try to stay involved where we are, a member of the NRCA and also the Roof Coating Manufacturers Association and I've been privileged enough to serve on the Board of Directors since 2017 with them. So that's enough about me. Let's talk about liquid applied roofing.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That is so great. I know, because we love this topic, that's for sure. So we're going to start out with who is Tremco. I do want to remind everybody the chat is open. Please ask questions as we go, make comments, observations, we want to hear it all. So Josh, for the people out there who don't know, tell us a little bit about Tremco and WTI.

Josh Poole: So Tremco Roofing is a Cleveland based company that was established in 1928. So, we're quickly approaching our 100-year anniversary, which is a huge accomplishment, especially in the roofing industry. So it's great longevity. Tremco started as a company, really focused on roof restoration and liquid applied products, mostly asphalt, cutbacks, restaurants and things along those lines. Back at that time, transitioned as many companies did, into membranes, modified single ply's and then it's come full circle here in recent years and we've really taken a hard approach at our founding, I guess, values and looking at restoring roofs and using liquid applied products to do so. At Tremco Roofing, we still carry a wide array of roofing options here from everything from modified, build up roofing, metal, single-ply, safety, vegetated. Name it, when it comes to commercial roofing, we typically have options to accommodate.

So the next bullet point there is WTI. Our WTI group, that stands for Weatherproofing Technologies Incorporated. We also have a branch in Canada, WTC, that we've started operations on here within, I don't know, the past handful of years. And that company is within the Tremco group here and they are the technical and service arm or branch of our company. So within that group you have two different platforms. One is the general contracting platform that offers turnkey project management just as a general contractor would. We also have a number of cooperative purchasing vehicles through that branch there for our end users. And then we also have a general services group. And that group handles everything from self-performed roof installations to inspection, technical, on the job site assistance, diagnostics and they also head up our Tremcare maintenance programs that we offer to our end users as well.

So within that group, for years we had our core businesses under the Tremco umbrella. That was the roofing division, WTI and then our commercial sealants and waterproofing groups. And here a few years back, they developed what's named our Tremco Constructions Product Group or CPG. And in that group you have a wide variety of companies that are all focused on different areas or facets of the building structure. So in addition to those Tremco divisions that were mentioned before, we also have brands and companies that you may recognize. Drive It, who is EVE's facade-based company that's been out in the industry for years. As a part of this group, Nudura offers insulated concrete forms for exterior walls in the construction phase. We have Pure Air, they handle HVAC assessments and provide solutions to restore existing HVAC units and also options to improve indoor air quality, energy efficiency, along those lines. We have Prebuck as engineered lumber framing solutions for building construction.

And then WillSeal as well, which offers compressed foam joints for that. So it's really a collective group of products and brands that are brought together to cover, like I said, every component of building structure itself.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Tremco is just leading the way in the building envelope from what we're seeing. Really putting everything in the roofs, the walls, the transitions, waterproofing, across the board. It's not new, but boy is it gaining momentum.

Josh Poole: Thanks Heidi. We're trying to. So we're giving it our best shot and we hope that we can deliver no matter what you need from a whole building envelope and building component aspect that we can have options and solutions for you.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That's excellent. So let's dive into what is a liquid applied roofing system? And I mean there's a lot of conversation about this. What's liquid applied? What's just a coating? How does all this work? People are interchanging the terminologies all the time, so help us get the bigger picture, Josh.

Josh Poole: So, when we look at liquid applied roofing systems, we take an approach that we're not just going up and applying a coating or painting roofs. So, there are times where that could be a viable option, whether it's providing a protective reflective surface for a new install of an asphalt build-up or modified type system. But when it comes to installing these systems over an existing roofing system and you're really looking for the performance aspect and waterproofing aspect, we want to take an approach that's going to address known areas that may be high stress or known problematic areas of these roofs. So we'll break this out into two different types of systems. One is a partially reinforced system. So in those cases, we're really identifying and focused on just those areas that I just mentioned. Areas that are known to have problems on aged roofs. Most roof leaks are going to come from areas either at laps, penetrations, flashings. Unless there's damage. Very rarely do you see a roof leak that's going to be in the field of the roof.

So we want to go ahead and address those areas with more than just applying our liquid products there. So we'll incorporate reinforcements, apply three course applications to provide a little bit more strength, stability and long-term performance in those areas where you really need that. And then typically follow that by one to three coats of a liquid system. And that's all dependent on the system that you're using and the technology. The other option that we have are what we call fully reinforced systems. So in this system you would actually install that reinforcement throughout the entirety of the roof surface. This is generally, you'll see fully reinforced systems, more so used with certain types of technologies. So it could be an acrylic polyurethane or a PMMA Puma type system is really are the areas where you'd see these types of systems going down.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And when you're really looking at that, Josh, whether it's partially reinforced or fully reinforced, it is not just a coating. And let's just talk about that just for a second. That really when it's done, it's a membrane, it's a system that is complete.

Josh Poole: Yeah, absolutely. In the case of the fully reinforced systems, I would say that is 100% the case where similar to other types of roll roofing systems that are in the market, whether it be a modified or a single ply type of product, you would have a base layer, a scrim reinforcement that's embedded into the middle and then a top layer of protection and waterproofing. And essentially we're doing just that in these cases, directly applied and fully bonded to that existing roof surface. So providing that reinforcement throughout that system is just going to, first of all, it'll increase or compliment the performance characteristics of those liquids. So typically you'll see higher strength values, better durability, better long-term resistance to movement and things along those lines. And in the case of the partially reinforced systems, we're doing that and it's really, like you said, focused on those areas of high stress or potential problematic areas on the roof to address those.

So yeah, it simply isn't painting a roof with a liquid product. And I think we're working our way past that. I think that was a perception in the past, especially and these products offer way more than that.

Heidi J Ellsworth: They do. And it is a different way of thinking too. So also there's a difference between restoring a roof and maybe just some repair work or some different things where a coating works really great, but when you're looking at how to determine if a roof can be restored 100% with those systems that you just talked about, that's something that people really need to be aware of, of how to do and how to do appropriately. Can you talk about that?

Josh Poole: Yeah, sure. This is something where in many cases we're assessing a very aged roof that has run the course of its life cycle and it's not as simple as just specifying that we'll install this system and everything will be okay. It really comes down to you really need to assess each roof individually. And the number one or first step on that process is to actually set foot on the roof, do an inspection, do an assessment visually of that roof surface. So with us, we typically will carry this out on our end through our local sales representatives or technical representatives who are trained, well-versed in what to look for and how to properly assess a roof. But really you need to get eyes on it, you need to see what conditions are up there. If there's something structurally going on with the facility that needs to be noted as well, not just the roof system.

And when you're doing inspections, you're looking at every single component of that roof and every condition that is on the roof currently. So looking for things like conditions of the existing roof membrane or the existing roof system to make sure that it's not too far weathered to accept a restoration system, checking flashings, looking for ponding water or areas where drainage is not performing as well as it may maybe should be. And really just determining from a high level, is this roof in a condition where we can restore it? So that's really step number one. And I will say that not every roof is going to be a candidate. So it's just no one wants to hear that, but it comes down to doing the right thing. So, if you get up on a roof, you find that it appears that it's beyond being in a restorable condition, then you can turn your focus onto other options at that point. So roof recover or possibly a tear off and replacement at that point.

So passing the visual inspection is step one. Going into the next step, I would say that's going to be your IR moisture survey and this is going to be critical to identify the underlying components and the conditions that you maybe are seeing there. So coating or applying liquid products over a wet roof is never going to end well. It doesn't matter which product type or what you're using. So it's going to be, this is a critical step. You really need to identify any areas of moisture that are in the roofing components themselves. You need to identify those. Typically the way this works is you start with the scan itself and then that's followed up by a secondary approach of getting on the roof, cutting cores and making sure that the area is mapped out that showed moisture during that scan are indeed wet.

And you can outline or map out those areas for replacement prior to the installing the liquid applied system. And then generally you want to look for anything at 20 to 25% or less of that square footage area being wet as far as the total square footage of the roof. So as you start to creep beyond that, sometimes there's actual local code language that'll actually prohibit any type of action other than a replacement in some certain areas of the country. And then really for any other areas where that doesn't apply, it becomes really a numbers game. Is it worth the money investment of tearing out a third of the roof versus maybe looking at a re-roofing option at that point?

Heidi J Ellsworth: That makes sense. Go ahead.

Josh Poole: No, go ahead.

Heidi J Ellsworth: I was just going to say, because coming down to the core analysis and making sure you're testing and doing all this stuff, we have a question from Jefferson and it says, "Are the IR scans on a smaller roof section a justifiable cost versus taking multiple core samples to determine wet insulation?"

Josh Poole: I think it depends on what your cost is to do those scans and who's carrying those out. But yeah, certainly on smaller roof sections, you may be able to properly assess whether or not you have moisture in that roof by simply taking core cuts in a number of areas. A good practice in those cases would be to get with the building owner, identify areas where they've had known leaks in the past and get an idea of that leak history. That's typically where you're going to find moisture in the system and you can really focus in on those points of the roof to make sure that you're checking those and evaluating those for any moisture that may be there. But yeah, I don't know that there's a square footage that I would put a number on, but for smaller roof sections, it may be something where you can go in and do something more along those lines and still get a very good idea of what type of conditions you have in the underlying components there.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That's great. Well, and I think it also comes back to the technicians you have on the roof, the installers, the people who can, like you said, understand, find out where the leaks have been, really looking at that. And so as we talk about with WTI, they're doing this every single day of the year, they're able to do it. Can you talk about that importance of the installation team and adding onto this, your technicians who are going up and looking at it and doing the inspections?

Josh Poole: It's a huge piece to this. You could have the best product or the best system in the world, but if the group or the crew that's installing the product aren't well versed and don't know what they're doing, you're not going to end up with the intended end result. Same goes for the folks that are, like you said, carrying out the tech support on site with the contractor or the crew that's doing the installation inspection services. So really training and education is vital. It's really to anything, not just liquid applied roofing. Understanding how to properly install the products, understanding all the nuances and the best practices, and then also what to look for as far as punch list items, problems with installs, to really understand how to install it and what to look for to make sure that that installation was done properly. It all comes down to training education.

Tremco has an extensive training program that we carry out with a number of those key stakeholders in the field. Our sales force, our technical people, including our WTI branch and representatives. And then we also offer contractor training as well for approved contractors and training them up on how to properly install our products. So that's the first step. The second step is to get to the point where you have trained experienced crews that are out on each and every job. They've done it before, they've done it a number of times, they've been trained properly, they know what to do. Like you said, they know all the nuances of the installs. And that's tough in today's market too, with the labor force the way it is. The amount of turnover and skilled labor continues to be a big thing that contractors are dealing with on a daily basis.

So we try to do what we can to help in that aspect as much as possible and try to think everyone at the end of the day wants to have a job that's installed properly, performs the way it's expected and does what we're promising that building owner it'll do. So it all comes down to just that, a team approach to make sure that that happens.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And I also know this is stand down for safety month, May. June is Tremco's global safety stand down and education. And safety is, it's your tagline, lead with safety, that is so important on every type of roof.

Josh Poole: Yeah. It's something that we take very seriously at Tremco. We always say lead and end with safety. Today I ended with safety on the bullet point. But yeah, it's something where I think the most important thing at the end of the day is that everyone that sets foot on that roof gets off of that roof. Comes down off of the ladder, gets in their cars, drives home their family, loved ones friends and comes back and is able to do it again the next day. So the number one thing that we look at on the Tremco side is making sure that each and every one of our job sites that we have our people on is going to be up to OSHA requirements and hold the highest accountability on the safety aspect as possible. So it really is the most important thing at the end of the day.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Yeah, it is so critical. And you know what, Josh, I'm going to go back one slide.

Josh Poole: Sure.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And namely because we have a great question here, again from Jefferson. Thank you so much. And it said you stated that 20, 25%, less than 20, 20 as not a viable solution. Sorry, more than, I need to be able to read my marks. More than 20 to 25% wet as not a viable situation for a roof. Can you elaborate on that?

Josh Poole: It is not necessarily that it's not a viable situation. It then starts becoming a matter of is doing a restoration once you've removed and replaced that much of or a high percentage of that roof with moisture within the system. Once you've replaced that percentage of the roof, is it a cost-effective and really, it's more of a common sense question, is this really the right approach to solutions for the building owner for this particular roof in those cases? So I did mention before, there are certain areas where local codes actually will put some type of a square footage or a percentage of the roof where they will require that you look at re-roofing or replacement options if it does exceed a certain amount. For everywhere else, like I said, we usually set that as a benchmark to really start evaluating whether or not the restoration is the best option for the building order, the end user, at that point, just from an overall cost standpoint and carrying out the job. Hopefully that clears that up for you.

Heidi J Ellsworth: If not, go ahead and put some comments in the chat. But this will all keep flowing together. So we're going to go on now and really talking about the primary application and benefits of AlphaGuard MTS. So we're going to talk about two different products here today, Josh. And so let's start with the MTS and maybe talk a little bit about that product overall and then its application and benefits.

Josh Poole: Our AlphaGuard MTS is a moisture-triggered urethane system. We can install this product in a number of application types. The primary one is for restoration of existing roof systems. So that is really what we do day in and day out with this product. But we also are able to install this product in what we call our AlphaGuard plus system. And that's really a system that we developed in cases where a restoration of an existing roofing system is not the option where whether it be the conditions dictated that any one of the factors that we discussed earlier. They would have an opportunity to install an insulated system which consists of an insulation package, cover board, a base ply and then the fully reinforced liquid applied MTS system over the top of that. So that's an option that if a building owner or an end user really wants to utilize a liquid applied system, they could do that even in cases where re-roofing or replacement or the option for them. So we have that.

And then we also can install this product in Irma systems, protected roof membrane type systems and also as the waterproofing layer for vegetated roofing as well. Some of the benefits of this product, one is it really lends itself to certain types of applications, so areas that may be difficult to access. So think of downtown metro areas on high-rise buildings where getting cranes in, shutting down streets become difficult. These types of systems you may very well be able to use service elevators or other means to get the product to the roof and be able to do the installation with very little disruption there. This is a low odor product, so counts where odor sensitivity comes into play, where they can't shut operations down. Hospitals, correctional facilities, places like that. This really lends itself to that as well. The product itself, I mentioned, is a moisture triggered urethane. It is an aliphatic urethane in both the base and top coat layers. So that's somewhat unique. Many urethane systems are going to be a combination of an aromatic base coat and aliphatic finish.

The aliphatic urethanes tend to perform better, offer better weather resistance. So the top line urethane technology throughout the entire system. And then the moisture triggered aspect to this differs from a moisture cured urethane. It's a different type of curing mechanism that actually reduce the potential for off-gassing. You can run into blistering issues with moisture cured urethanes, whereas this type of urethane really limits the risk of that. It's a easily installed product, single component. And then high solids is an important aspect to this as well. So this product is about 90% solids and what that means is that 90% of that liquid that you apply to the roof surface is going to remain in solid waterproofing film.

Heidi J Ellsworth: So that's the MTS. Now let's compare that to the primary benefits of your AlphaGuard Bio.

Josh Poole: Our Bio would offer the same type of applications or installation methods there that we mentioned with the MTS. Our AlphaGuard Bio product is a two-component, bio-based urethane. So the key benefit to this product, I would say, is that bio content and then probably followed by the next bullet point, which is it is virtually odorless. So this product I talked about, accounts or facilities that could be susceptible to having odor issues that could impact their operations at the facility, this product can be applied, installed as those operations go on without any risk of any issues occurring when it comes to that.

The two-component aspect to this allows for a rapid cure. So rather than having a skin cure and then allowing a number of hours, if not overnight, to get to a full cure, that single component products typically run, the two component will be cured in a matter of hours and it's also a more reliable cure. It's less likely to be impacted by the elements. So mentioned overnight conditions, if you get an overnight rain, something along those lines, some single component products could be susceptible to being affected or impacted by some of that two component product that's going to cure within a matter of a couple of hours is going to be much more reliable and reduce the risk of that occurring. And this product's also 100% solid. So we mentioned the MTS is a 90% solids product, this one is 100. So whatever you're putting down wet, you get in dry waterproofing at the end of the day.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Wow. And two really important, kind of solve some different problems but also really aim in the same direction. And I think a lot of that, Josh, is about sustainability. There is a big push out there, especially from the architectural community, from the design community, other things, about sustainability. So how do these two products really stack up for that?

Josh Poole: They really go hand in glove with sustainability and liquid applied's always been that way no matter if you're talking our AlphaGuard products or others. There's a number of very real sustainable benefits that you get from looking into restoring roofs with liquid applied products. So the first one here is extending the life of that existing roof. So rather than tearing those roofs off, taking them to landfill, we're able to keep that roof in place, extend its service life and then continue to do so. And that on the Tremco side alone, we've diverted thousands and thousands of tons of landfill by taking this restoration approach and it really is an issue. Roofing accounts for a large amount of landfill waste that's going to those yards. And by doing this, we can avoid it and divert that for at least the life of that roof.

Another key aspect is the reflectivity lowering building temperatures. So there's a number of benefits here. Number one, especially if you have rooftop units, that's going to keep the air cooler, that's going to reduce the energy use of those units and overall keep the building cooler as well to reduce HVAC cost. And there's also been studies that even with white reflective surfaces, you can see benefits even in the northern climates where you do get that heat penalty during the winter time. Studies have found that you actually come out ahead with the savings and energy reduction that you get out of those hot summer months. So these systems also divert greenhouse gas emissions and also the heat island effect, which many people have heard about. That's something where, again, there have been studies done that show that cool roofing will reduce that heat island effect, reduce the temperature in those areas.

And there's also been some, what I think is interesting, they've found that there's some health benefits where they've had less emergency calls or health issues that have occurred in the same areas prior to taking an approach of going the reflective route and trying to lower the overall temperature in those areas. So yeah, it crosses over into our everyday life and some of the cause and effects there too, which is pretty cool. Go ahead, Heidi.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Oh, I was just going to say I'm really interested in this USDA bio-preferred. We've run a number of articles on that and press releases, but I am excited for you to dive into that too.

Josh Poole: The USDA initiated a program about, I think it's a little bit over 20 years ago at this point, called USDA Bio-Preferred. And it was a way of measuring the use of bio-based components or rapidly renewable content and was a way that would allow specifically federal agencies or government agencies to easily identify these products, which are a preferred purchasing method as well. So we were, Tremco amongst others, were founding members of this program. So we've been involved with the USDA in this program from the very beginning and we offer a wide array of products through there. We have some adhesives; we have some surfacing flood coat options and then we have some of the liquid applied products that are listed through the program and carry ranges anywhere from upwards of 70 plus percent bio content with some of our products. So we really take pride in developing products with this in mind and looking to offer a more sustainable type of product to the marketplace that benefits everyone.

Heidi J Ellsworth: The USDA bio-preferred also, are you seeing that specced in government projects or in any other kind of with specifications?

Josh Poole: Yes, at times we do. And it's also, he said, a preferred purchasing option for government agencies where they're directed to look at these bio-based options if they're also looking at equal type products and show preference to those more sustainable options as well. So it's a way of getting away from petroleum-based products that have been used for years and looking at a different route that allows us to grow and harvest these products on annual basis rather than mining them from the earth. So,

Heidi J Ellsworth: Interesting. And that leads you to all of these things really lead you back to that overall recoat warranties being able to maintain that system. So let's talk about that a little bit from the sustainability side.

Josh Poole: This is probably the most sustainable aspect to everything that we've talked about here. It all starts with preserving that existing roof, leaving it in place, but then moving forward, even at the end of the service life of our liquid applied system, we'll offer recoat options at the end of it. So you can continue to extend the life of that particular roof into the foreseeable future. So we've had projects where we have installed the original system and we've recoded twice since then, and we're at the end of each of those life cycles we will go through that same process that we talked about earlier. We want to reevaluate, make sure that it's still in a restorable condition and we'll go and recoat and extend the life even further.

So it's really an endless possibility until eventually you may get to a point or a finish line where reroofing or really replacement is going to be your option. But just knowing that you can get decades and decades out into the future, we really haven't gotten to the point where we've seen a finish line. So we're going to continue down that path and we're going to try to maintain these roofs for as long as possible.

Heidi J Ellsworth: That's impressive. That's really impressive. So with that in mind, let's talk about a project that you've worked on and I love this picture. This is so cool, this children's hospital. So, Josh, talk to us about this.

Josh Poole: When we looked at or I was asked to do a project profile, a lot of times you'll see these huge projects, thousands of squares that were done and look at this massive job that was done. And I wanted to take a different approach because I think it really highlights the versatility of these products and what you can actually do with them. So this is a children's hospital in Southern California. Again, you're going to see this is a smaller roof on the grand scale of things here, but this hospital, had gotten to a point where they were having numerous leaks in this area and it was also the conditions were getting worse and worse with the existing roof and it was really becoming an eyesore from the upper levels. So you had multiple levels up above this that were looking down on it.

And so the hospital really, they had to do something here, but they took an opportunity to do something a little bit different. And what they decided to do, they wanted to make a patient play area on this roof. So they obviously contacted us and we were able to go in and provide them with a solution. So this job was an AlphaGuard Bio job. We used that to install the waterproofing layer on the underside of the system and that was installed by an approved contractor. We had our WTI branch there to provide tech and inspection services throughout the process and be a key critical part to that installation. Some of the benefits here is that the AlphaGuard Bio, again, was a virtually odorless product, so we didn't need to do anything to really impact the operations of the hospital that were occurring underneath. We were able to take standard precautions and do the install without any real detriment or disruption to what was happening there.

The fast cure of the product allowed the other trades to quickly move forward with the project schedule. So once our AlphaGuard Bio waterproofing layer was installed, then allowed those contractors to come in, install the drainage layer, protective layers and then this rubberized play surface area that was installed over the top. And the end result is the leaks were resolved. This has turned into, gone from an eyesore to a beautiful space where people can look down and see kids playing in this area and working their way through their recovery process at the hospital. So it's a really cool project and we were really happy to be a part of it.

Heidi J Ellsworth: It is so cool looking. I love it. And people who are out there playing with their little kids aren't going to be thinking about what's underneath this, what waterproofing [inaudible 00:44:46] but the hospital sure is because they know they're going to be safe.

Josh Poole: And that's something where you really, especially with configurations like this, you don't want leaks. Going and trying to investigate leaks with these components in place is something that you just don't want. And so having a high level of confidence in what we're putting down underneath there is going to offer that long-term protection was really critical.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Very much so. Wow, this is great. Let's talk a little bit, we're coming up to the last 15 minutes of our presentation. I would encourage everyone if you have questions, comments. We've had some great comments and questions go through here, but if you have any more, please ask them. We're going to go over why AlphaGuard is ideal. We're going to look at it, Josh, thank you, from both the building owner's perspective and the contractor perspective, because both are really important.

Josh Poole: And it is too somewhat relatable, but also very different benefits that come into play with these two different stakeholders here. So the building owners, number one, from a financial standpoint, typically these systems are going to be installed at a fraction of what it would cost to replace a roof. So they're going to see some cost savings with regard to that. It's going to maximize their return on investment and allow them to continue to recoat and give them a solution that's a lower annual square foot cost year over year to allow them to keep what's in place, maintain it and continue to maintain it into the foreseeable future. When it comes to the install itself, you don't need a whole lot of equipment or large crews to install these products. So it's really minimal disruption to the facility when it comes to that aspect as well as the install itself. We're not tearing out areas outside of potential wet replacement, but it really minimizes the disruption for that building or it allows them in most cases to continue operating without any issues and move forward.

I would say the last one that I wanted to mention here for the building owner is not only does it maintain their existing roof, but it also adds to the waterproofing. So they've had a somewhat functional roof that's been in place continuing to perform at a somewhat reasonable level. We're doing the steps necessary to continue bring it back up to a performance standpoint and then also providing them with additional waterproofing on top of that. And one of the things that's key to the liquid applied is that it provides a seamless design. Many roof systems, I mentioned it earlier, are going to leak at seams or laps, flashings, penetrations. Doing these types of systems allows you to install them without the seams and a free full monolithic surface there.

The contractor standpoint, typically this allows for faster, easier installations and usually, like you said, you're able to complete these installs with smaller crew sizes, so less equipment, smaller crews. We talked about labor being an issue for the construction industry and the roofing industry in particular of late. This really allows you to maximize the people that you have on staff and go out and get work done. The less disruptive also comes into play for the contractors and it also is a lower risk. You're not cutting into the roof for the most part. You're not opening things up. You're not having large equipment less potential for injury to the workers on site there as well. So I would say that's a key aspect from the contractor standpoint. And the last one is it expands your offering. So if you're not currently using liquid applied products, you're really missing out on a large and fast growing segment of the marketplace. So by looking into these options, building out, having crews that are able to install these products, it's just going to expand what you can take to your customers as a contractor in the field as well.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And one of the things you talked about earlier was sustainability too. And so when you're talking about expands your offering, that understanding what you have and what it may be specified, whether it's government, co-ops, hospitals, but being able to provide that kind of sustainability and the information that Tremco provides with the EPDs, environmental protection data sheets and all of that, I think makes a big difference for contractors too.

Josh Poole: I would 100% agree. And for a contractor, I think a key piece to them getting into this market is understanding the manufacturers that are out there and really looking to develop and cultivate a partnership with those companies as well. So, at the end of the day, we work with our contractors with one end goal in mind and that's to take care of the building owner and, like I said, live up, install what we promised we're going to install and have a system that's going to live up to what we say it's going to do. So that's really important for contractors to look at as they're looking into this market.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Exactly, exactly. Well, Josh, thank you so much. This has been so informational and really some nuggets, things that contractors can use to take away. So, as we open this for questions, one of my first questions to you is and this came in, how can contractors get involved with Tremco?

Josh Poole: The first step is to work through our local sales representatives. So that is the first step. If you go to our website, you'll find a find the rep link. You also have the opportunity to contact us through the website, via email. So if you are interested, if you don't know who to contact or you have questions about it, you can feel free to reach out to us and we can also get you in contact with that local representative and they can take the next steps from there.

Heidi J Ellsworth: And all this information is available on Roofers Coffee Shop and Coatings Coffee Shop in the Tremco WTI directories. So you can find information there, how to get involved and how to connect back there. And if anybody has any questions or thoughts, please pop those in the Q&A or into the chat. But Josh, I think one other question is as contractors, I mean we're going into the heat of the season now, not we are going into the heat of the season, but as they're looking, one of the things that you brought up was that this is really something your business is going to need to offer. So, whether the contractors who are listening are already commercial contractors who maybe are not doing liquid applied as much or if they're residential and they are looking to get more into commercial, liquid applied can be a great way to get started. What's some of your advice to the contractors as they look at adding this kind of surface into their business, whether it's this year or looking at 2025?

Josh Poole: I think going back to what I just mentioned, looking into the different types of manufacturers that are in the marketplace and really doing your homework on what they have to offer, how long they've been offering these types of products or systems, and really getting a good understanding of that would probably be my first recommendation. You want to understand and know who you're going to be partnering with because at the end of the day, that's what it is, it's a partnership. And then looking to go from the residential to the commercial side, this could be an opportunity to do so. That is probably on the scale of installation, I would say more on the easier side of things. So it would make for a smooth transition. Again, partnering with someone that understands commercial roofing will be critical. There's things that a residential contractor, I'm sure, just are not going to know that are or best practices on the commercial side and vice versa if a commercial contractor was getting into residential.

So look into, surround yourself with a support system that's going to help you make that transition and train you, educate you, so that you understand what you're doing and you're doing the right things is going to be probably a pretty critical part of that as well.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Exactly, exactly. And I would encourage everyone, Josh is member of Tremco, and so are we at Coatings Coffee Shop. [inaudible 00:55:14] and checking out the roofing, Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association, RCMA, they have training, they have information, and you can really, if you're residential looking to go into coatings is a great first stop to get the training and the education that you need at the RCMA. They also have a directory, of course, on Coatings Coffee Shop. And so, Josh, we do have a question here. "If there are two roofs in place on the building already, is the reinforced liquid applied system considered another roof system making it three roofs that will not meet code?"

Josh Poole: Yeah, that's a great question. Currently the code really does not define whether or not that would be a third roof. There's no code language that defines that. So whereas other types of roof systems would fall under those restrictions. So it's really a matter of interpretation when it comes to that. But if you go in and look at the definitions of those systems in the international building code or local code jurisdictions, in most cases you're going to find that other types of roof covers may fall under there whereas liquid applied systems technically would be more of a maintenance restoration type of an application.

Heidi J Ellsworth: Well Josh, thank you. Again, this has been great, incredibly informative and some great questions. So thank you all out there so much for getting us the information, asking the questions. This has been great. If you want to get a hold of Josh, we can connect you heidi@rooferscoffeeshop.com and I'll connect you to Josh or you can go to the Tremco or WTI directories on Roofers Coffee Shop and also on Coatings Coffee Shop and get information there, contact information, to ask more questions. So Josh, again, thank you so much for everything. Any last comments?

Josh Poole: Oh, thank you Heidi. I appreciate it. Like I said, as always, it's a pleasure and hopefully we can do it again soon.

Heidi J Ellsworth: We will. You know we will. This is great. Thank you all so much for being on. Stay tuned. We have more coating stocks coming every month, second week of the month on Wednesdays, usually today was a special one on Friday, so stay tuned for that. We also, of course, have our read, listen, watch webinars on Roofers Coffee Shop and our metal talk on Metal Coating Shop. So we will keep you informed. Have a wonderful weekend and this will be available on Monday for you to share out. Thank you everybody and have a great day.